Unlocking the Mystery of Chronic Fatigue: Could This Common Virus Be the Cause? with Kasia Kines

What’s Inside This Episode?

• The Hidden Virus Behind Chronic Fatigue: Many people unknowingly carry this virus which lies dormant until triggered by various factors and changes.
• Triggers That Reactivate the Virus: Dr. Kines explains which factors can reawaken this virus, setting off cycles of fatigue and other symptoms.
• The Importance of Root Cause Identification: Dr. Kines’ approach goes beyond standard treatment; her methods involve testing and identifying the virus as a root cause rather than merely managing surface symptoms.
• Symptoms to Watch For: Classic signs of viral reactivation are revealed. Practitioners can use these as indicators to dig deeper.
• Evidence-Based Methods for Lasting Recovery: With a combination of habits and tools, Dr. Kines shares her evidence-based approach to stabilizing clients and promoting true recovery. 
• Empowering Clients Through Education: Practitioners can help clients understand their triggers, manage reactivation risks, and create sustainable lifestyle changes for long-term health.

Resources and Links:

• See the Full Transcript here
• Download our Free Guide to Supporting a Healthy and Balanced Immune System
• Join the Next-Level Health Practitioner Facebook group here for free resources and community support
• Get the replay and slides from our most recent conference for practitioners, ReInvent 2025, for a deep dive into the impact of the microbiome, lab testing, and genetics.
• Visit INEMethod.com for advanced health practitioner training and tools to elevate your clinical skills and grow your practice by getting life-changing results. 
• Want to learn more about balancing the immune system?  Check out this episode.

Dr Kasia Kines Resources and Links

• Take Dr. Kines’ Free Quiz on Viral Symptoms EBV Global Institute Quiz
• Learn more about Dr. Kines’ resources and training for practitioners at EBV Global Institute –  EBVhelp.com
• Check out Dr Kines Book – The EBV Solution 
• Connect with Dr Kasia Kines 

Dr. Kasia Kines Bio

Kasia Kines DCN, MS, MA, CN, CSN
Doctor of Clinical Nutrition

Dr. Kines is the CEO and Founder of EBV Global Institute. She is an expert on recovery therapy for chronic Epstein-Barr Virus, an author, a wellness expert, and a doctor of clinical nutrition. Since 2005, she has built an international reputation as a functional nutritionist, from being sought after by Johns Hopkins University to the ground-breaking Amazon best-seller book Epstein-Barr Virus Solution.

Dr. Kines has developed the only evidence-based methodology for a complete long-term recovery from Epstein-Barr Virus. She has been teaching that in the EBV Recovery Program. She also provides turn-key trainings in that methodology for the medical community.

Dr. Kines is a passionate advocate for debunking common misinformation about EBV in the medical community and lectures on this topic extensively. She is on a mission to share the truth about EBV and the solutions globally, so no one needs to suffer needlessly from this misunderstood virus and its complications.

Don’t Miss an Episode!

Subscribe to Reinvent Healthcare for more essential insights that empower practitioners to dig deeper into root causes and revolutionize patient care! Join us as we go beyond symptoms to uncover hidden causes and empower a new approach to wellness!

 

---

Transcript

Dr Ritamarie  (00:00.256)

Welcome back to the podcast. I’m super excited to be here today with you all. So imagine if you were fighting an enemy that you didn’t even know exists. That’s exactly what’s happening for millions of people suffering from chronic fatigue and other mystery symptoms that doctors are just saying, we don’t know what’s wrong with you. 

 

Today we’re going to explore the possibilities for what’s wrong with them, and better than that, how we can help them. 

 

Our topic today is the frequently overlooked impact of a virus, Epstein-Barr, who everybody’s heard of in relation to mononucleosis, which is the kissing disease. But what they don’t realize is that ongoingly it can be a problem with people’s bad health into their later years, maybe decades after they’ve actually had this experience or maybe even decades after they’ve not even remembered they had that experience. 

 

Many people who are struggling with chronic health issues like fatigue and overall not feeling well, don’t seem to respond to ordinary approaches, the way we typically approach these. And so I have the perfect guest today to walk us through how we know if these chronic health conditions, these mystery conditions, are caused by this virus and then what to do with it. 

 

Let me tell you a little bit about our guest. She’s the CEO and founder of the EBV Global Institute. She’s an expert on recovery therapy for chronic Epstein-Barr virus. She’s an author, bestselling author, it’s a very big book. You can buy it on Amazon. And she’s a wellness expert and doctor of clinical nutrition. She’s been sought after by Johns Hopkins University and has developed evidence-based methodology for complete long-term recovery of Epstein-Barr virus.

 

She’s on a mission to share the truth about EBV and the solutions that nobody’s looking at so that no one needs to suffer this misunderstood virus and its complications. So welcome Dr. Kasia Kines.

 

Dr Kasia (02:36.306)

Thank you for having me, Ritamarie.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (02:38.252)

I’m so excited to have you here. We haven’t seen you in person in quite a while, but we used to spend good times together, and I love picking your brain about these topics and our audience, mostly health practitioners watch this and listen to this, and they’re looking for help with what do we do with these chronic people that don’t just don’t seem to be responding.

 

Let’s just jump in first of all with what the heck is EBV? We know it’s a virus, what is it and why is it so overlooked in chronic health conditions?

 

Dr Kasia (03:17.33)

Well, it’s a herpes virus. It’s been on this planet for a couple of millions of years, according to what we understand. 95 plus percent of the global population carry this virus. So we’re kind of co-hosting, we’re living together. And so the biggest thing that people don’t understand is that it’s an opportunistic virus that can be dormant and depending on the environmental trigger, emotional triggers, stress triggers.

 

Nutritional deficiency status, it can be triggered, activated, reactivated. Hormonal changes can trigger, reactivate that virus too. There’s a lot of opportunities. Stress being the biggest one. So most people that realize that they have chronic EBV, they can pinpoint a time in their life when they crashed and what caused it. So it doesn’t just sneak up on you.

 

It’s kind of a result of things that have happened. So the common misconception in the EBV community is that it’s the cause of all the evil in my body, but it’s not, it’s a result of things that went wrong. It’s just the end result of it. So when you are a practitioner working with it, it’s not like, okay, it’s not like… H. pylori, that also is an opportunist. 

 

All of these are opportunists, but it’s not like you give a patient supplements for two months, done deal, go and live your life. Because that would be patching holes. That doesn’t address the reason, why did that happen, what tipped you over, because it’s going to happen again and again and again. 

 

Dr Kasia (05:14.898)

So it’s not a temporary fix unfortunately, and that’s the understanding in medical practice in functional medicine that is lacking because in traditional allopathic practice there’s not even an understanding that chronic EBV exists. The only thing that is recognized is mononucleosis which is the active acute infection that may be the first one in people’s lives.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (05:41.954)

So what it sounds like, and this is my belief I hold true to, there’s always root causes, underlying causes that cause something in the environment, whether it’s a bacteria or a virus or a fungus or whatever to grow. We’re all exposed to this stuff all the time, right? It’s the terrain and it’s building internal resilience. 

 

It’s not a matter of killing the pathogen, right? Kill it. How do we kill it? And that’s what everybody wants to know, whether it’s COVID or H. pylori or whatever, we want to know how to kill it. And that’s the allopathic medical approach. What I see, and I see you pointed this out in functional medicine, we oftentimes, and I’m not saying me or you, but a lot of people who are doing functional medicine come from the allopathic world.

 

And what they’re doing is looking for a natural alternative to the pharmaceuticals, right? Green pharmacy, exactly. Allopathic naturopathy. There’s a lot of words for it.

 

Dr Kasia (06:44.734)

I stopped going to functional medicine conferences a number of years ago. Last time I went was when they had a panel, two, three hundred doctors in the audience, a panel talking about nutrition, five chairs. All the chairs with panelists were male MDs. There was not a single clinical nutritionist or female. And I thought it was really interesting.

 

None of them had the clinical nutritionist background professionally that you need to have really a backbone and perspective and reference frame. Functional medicine is going in a direction I don’t understand. So let’s leave it there.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (07:46.402)

We discuss that on another episode, because I want to go through this EBV thing. But I also wanted to establish, we as practitioners, you as a client who’s looking for help, don’t look for a magic bullet because there are no magic bullets, right? You’re not going to find it. You’re going to waste your time. You’re going to waste your money. You’re going to waste a lot of healing potential that you could be utilizing towards actually getting your body in a place. Yes, there is time and a place for killing pathogens. Absolutely. But what are we doing to establish a terrain that is inhospitable to pathogens? That’s our big goal.

 

Dr Kasia (08:30.384)

Yeah, that’s the big goal. Let me frame it in one more layer or two more layers for you that I noticed because I’m very pattern oriented. I can profile a person with chronic EBV, which is I would say 90% accurate. So one of the things is perfectionism, type A personality.

 

And what they do for years is they just go through 12 different therapeutic diets, 50 doctors, every therapy, goes on this, this. They just want to go get it done, get it done, move on. They have things to do. And they also over give as a compensatory mechanism, because they’re in turn, this is the internal journey. I’m not enough. I’m not enough. Therefore I have to overextend myself.

 

As a result, they are more susceptible to something like EBV, because they’re losing their self. You know, we are spiritual beings having physical experience. so that physical experience is often the result of the personal journey. And so with EBV, what I have to teach people is to give yourself more grace, to slow down, not to expect quick solutions. Like you’re saying, you know, I’m going to do this, get it done.

 

It’s a process of healing and discovery. Who am I? What happened to me? When did I lose my North Star? Am I in a toxic relationship? Am I not saying no when I need to say no? Did I lose my boundaries? These are the biggest, biggest, biggest issues in their bucket. And so you can’t address it with a two month protocol of supplements. Because even if the supplements help temporarily, to stabilize you, what they do, you’re going to constantly have a revolving door.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (10:33.386)

And if not EBV, what other viral infections, what other pathogens, right? It just keeps piling on. 

 

Dr Kasia (10:39.802)

Yeah, you become a Velcro, like you see. And in medical literature, we have a concept of transactivation. When you have EBV, you are prone to have other co-infections. When you have some other infections, if you have a history of EBV, you tend to reactivate EBV as well. Co-infections in the bucket are very common with EBV. So we have to untangle it.

 

But yeah, your terrain becomes very attractive. And if you look at all the levels, including frequency, because everything is energy, the frequency is low. Vibration of the physical body is low. Pathogens are attracted to certain vibrations. 

 

Dr Kasia (11:32.798)

We really need to address the whole person and that’s the hardest part, because we can open the mouth and people are on 30, 40 supplements when they come and talk to me and we just strip. The longer I do this, the more I strip those supplements.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (11:48.728)

That’s the thing. I always tell people, I’m going to reduce your number of supplements, not increase it, but make it more targeted. But you got to do the work. I have a phrase that I say to people, I’m going to put it on a t-shirt sometime soon. Good health doesn’t come in a bottle. You have to do the work. And the work is reestablishing balance in this body.

 

Dr Kasia (12:12.582)

Yeah, and they were established, very well said, and reestablishing balance, especially in the community is also healing from trauma because there’s oftentimes history of trauma, unfortunately.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (12:28.738)

Yeah, we’re hearing that over and over. So physical trauma, mental trauma, emotional trauma, long-term trauma, recent trauma, past trauma when you were four years old or two months old, all of these things. And more fortunately, attention is being given to that. So you’re seeing that as an underlying dysfunction that can be causing the susceptibility to EBV.

 

Dr Kasia (12:52.894)

Yeah, I do. I really do. And I feel like, if you look at research, every species has empathetic individuals, and it’s about 20% in each species, not humans alone. But in my community, people that come and work with me, I would say empaths are about 85, 95%. So it’s like a canary in the mine.

 

So if you have a crowd of 10 people sitting in the same room, breathing the same air, watching the same negative news, those empaths, those canaries will be the ones reactivating and others may not.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (13:39.776)

Like you said, 95% of people, if we just go and do an EBV antibody test, you’re saying that 95% of the people would have a positive for having been exposed. I think it should be good. So we were saying, yeah, that 95% of the people have had that exposure. Either you’ve had mono that you remember that brutal six weeks of fatigue and whatever when you were in college or high school. But a lot of us don’t even, I don’t remember ever having mono, but I’m sure I was exposed to it. So it’s going to be there if we just go and do an EBV antibody test. And a lot of people are making that mistake and going, well.

 

You know, it might be EBV. You have an EBV antibody. So I would like to talk a little bit about how we differentiate that, but also when should we be looking to see if EBV is an underlying cause and then how should we be looking?

 

Dr Kasia (15:17.596)

Yeah, so I’ll start with the latter. Medical literature is clear. If you have idiopathic conditions, you have to really look for EBV. And if you’re working with a patient and nothing works, as expected, then you also should test for EBV. These are two different studies. So it is something to consider when you’re hitting the wall.

 

Dr Kasia (15:48.114)

And we do all have those cases when we’re hitting the wall and that’s probably one of those cases. And so unfortunately in terms of when to suspect it, like this is when you suspect it. In terms of presentations, there’s a whole laundry list of presentations. I have a four page quiz that people can take online free, four pages.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (16:11.8)

Great. We’ll make sure we put the link to that in the show notes or in the description.

 

Dr Kasia (16:16.23)

It is listed in categories, different kinds of cancers, different kinds of autoimmune disorders, different kinds of symptoms, typical symptoms, atypical symptoms. It could be weird things like nosebleeds and extreme sensitivity to mosquito bites when they get infected. Low platelets or this or that.

 

Dr Kasia (16:40.03)

75% of people with EBV will manifest with headaches. People don’t know that. 

 

Dr Ritamarie  (16:47.736)

A lot of people have headaches. They just assume it’s my normal headaches.

 

Dr Kasia (17:09.768)

Headaches have so many sources, skin rashes, but you never know. If you take that quiz, so I have clusters of different areas, and you just check off your life history, you start seeing, I had this.

 

When I was a kid. It was juvenile rheumatoid arthritis, and nobody knew why. It’s tonsils history, tonsils being engorged or removed and stuff like that. I had one baby boomer patient of mine said, I remember when I was a kid, my tonsils were removed, and my parents told me the doctor actually biopsied them, all EBV.

 

It could be strep or EBV, but oftentimes this is the entry, tonsils are typically where it starts. So if, the profile is, you’ve been to 50 doctors, you spent $100,000, you’ve done ozone, you’ve done this, you’ve done that, you’ve done that laundry list of everything, all the newest therapies better than I do. You have 30 supplements, you’re doubling into everything, the next best thing and you just can’t figure it out. That would be the profile. Our failing patients basically, that’s what it is.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (18:13.112)

That would be a good call. Right. It’s the ones that have been, I call it multiple multiple doctor syndrome, right? They just go from one doctor to another, and they think that the next one’s going to have the solution, right? And if that happens, and you’re doing a history on someone, and that’s what you’re finding out, it may, unless you’re really looking at all these possible underlying causes, you may not be the one that gets them the results, unless you have these techniques, these strategies under your belt. You may be just another tick mark in their list and then they move on to someone else. So it’s important to understand this and you need to look.

 

Dr Kasia (18:47.9)

Well, let me mention the classic symptoms, because we’re talking about the classic symptoms will be overbearing fatigue. And it’s the kind of fatigue when you drag yourself from the sofa to the kitchen, back to the sofa, and your daily expenditure of energy is gone, gone, done. You can’t really take a walk, because then you’re going to crash for three days in bed, let alone run.

 

And then you have severe fatigue, brain fog, so you feel like you have a cognitive decline. And oftentimes your lymph nodes are enlarged, painful, tender. You might have a chronic sore throat. These are kind of the classic ones. Sometimes ringing in the ear.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (19:38.83)

Okay, and not all of these have to be present, right? I mean, if they may have the energy, but they have all the other symptoms, we still should be looking.

 

Dr Kasia (19:47.848)

Could be. And sometimes they can have bouts of bad energy, good energy, and they are very anxious and confused because you don’t understand the pattern of the virus. You don’t understand what triggers it. So people have a lot of anxiety because they don’t know what’s around the corner. They don’t understand. They’re trying all these right things, diets, and one day they’re up and one day they’re down. It’s very demoralizing.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (20:15.636)

Sounds like what I was in my twenties. It sounds very much like what I experienced in my twenties. So when we’re doing this, right? So if we did just an IgG kind of antibody test for EBV, 95% of us would show up positive, right? So what do we do instead? Because it activates and deactivates, activates and deactivates, talk a little bit about that.

 

Dr Kasia (20:18.526)

There’s two antibodies that will commonly be in triple digits in many people, and these are the big ones for lives that don’t reflect your current status necessarily. And this is VCA IgG EBNA.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (21:17.332)

And those will be triple digits.

 

Dr Kasia (21:21.63)

This can be triple digits, but if they are over the range, like more than 600, that is probably triggering something. And they will fluctuate up and down, but they will never go back to zero. We’re tagged. These are the big ones that stay for life. You can have a perfect life, not be affected, live your life, not have symptoms, and they may still be in that place. But if they are over the range, then definitely that’s a red flag. 

 

The one IgM that is very confusing, and this is where the traditional medical practice fails and misdiagnoses people is VC IgM. Because in traditional understanding, IgM is now, IgG is past. However, this VC IgM, really only gets flagged when it’s your initial infection. So it’s expected to be normal in a reactivated community. It’s not going to show. It rarely shows and if it shows positive, I think more about molecular mimicry or co-infections. And it’s rare. So the expected thing for you to see is that this one will be normal.

 

Dr Kasia (22:48.082)

And it doesn’t mean that it’s only past exposure. The most important thing is the antibody number four. And unfortunately, traditional labs don’t include this in the panel. This is the problem. You have to request that separately in most labs. And it’s early antigen, EA IgG.

 

Early antigen is IgG, so you would think it’s past exposure, but it’s not. That’s the one that shows up whenever you reactivate. So you have to understand a couple of things about the pattern.

 

A woman with a bad case of chronic mono can reactivate cyclically every month as she gets periods. So that early antigen, depending when she tests it, can be high every time she tests. And so reactivations can be frequent. It just depends because reactivations are fed by hormonal changes. So menstrual hormone flips, you know.

 

Dr Kasia (23:57.758)

Early antigen doesn’t live long. So here’s a story from my clinical group. I was training doctors and one of them says, I have a classic presentation. Everything lines up. I know it’s EBV. It’s like right in my face. However, she tested and early antigen is normal. What do we do with this? So early antigen doesn’t live long. You don’t always reactivate, right?

 

Dr Kasia (24:28.282)

So I asked her when did she test? January. When did she feel like she was hit by a truck? Thanksgiving. You want to test your patient when they are flat on their back, the worst of the worst. And this is when people say, I feel like I’ve been hit by a Mack truck. That’s how they feel.

 

Dr Kasia (24:53.476)

That’s when you want to test, which is hard because they are so sick. Who wants to go and test? If you miss it, it’s just a couple of weeks and that early antigen can start normalizing. So it will curve downwards. So you may not really have a good reading. So I don’t test and retest. I don’t care about it because I’ve seen these patterns over and over again. So I know what to expect. I know what protocol works and it does.

 

Dr Kasia (25:22.647)

So even that quiz that I mentioned will really explain it’s available to everyone. It’s free. And that would explain a lot if you want to work with your patients, you start there. Like, let’s go over it together. Let’s see what patterns we see. Everything on that list of four pages, four pages of lists is evidence based.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (25:45.806)

When you say evidence-based, you mean there is medical literature, double-blind placebo controlled studies or something like that at the time.

 

Dr Kasia (25:49.37)

Medical literature. Whatever I could find and patterns that I’ve seen. It’s not my opinion, and every person is different. Overwhelmingly fatigue and brain fog and maybe the lymph involvement are most common. but you can have different combinations

 

Dr Ritamarie  (26:13.806)

Got it. So what do we do? Like you said, you have an evidence-based protocol, and I know you have a book that weighs a lot and is very thick. I remember you gave it to me once at a seminar and I’m like, how am going to take this home? My backpack’s going to break my back here. No, but all kidding aside, tell us a little bit about the evidence-based approach and how you do it.

 

Dr Kasia (26:36.346)

The book is big because one third of the book is research. What we know, what we suspect, because I was sick and tired of this kind of a religious approach. I don’t believe in it. It’s like a belief system. It doesn’t exist. It’s in your head. Still happens to people. So it’s a reference book on all things EBV, so people can go anywhere and index and find what they need.

 

So the protocol is, start with eight products. And the requirements for them to make it to my eight top, is they had to have a very high antioxidant value. They had to have a very high nutritional value. Seven of them do, one is an exception.

 

And they had to multitask. They have multiple positive functions on the body, physiology and functions. And then they, of course, had to have very specific targeting action for EBV. So they had a big competition, which aids was I going to pick? Which deliver? I practiced with my patient at work. So you want me to list them?

 

Dr Ritamarie  (27:58.506)

Before we do that, what I really want to discuss is, I’m a big anti-protocol person. I believe in frameworks, and I believe in strategies, but I also believe in personalizing it for people. So when we talk about eight products, are those eight products good for everybody? Are there particular conditions under which certain people need them and others don’t?

 

Dr Kasia (28:16.304)

I work exactly the same way. So I don’t provide this product of code to anyone except my students, because I have to have one-on-one with them and get the framework and customize things. But if you zoom out, you have certain supplements that have those functions and they start turning down the virus. But at the same time, one of the things we do to clean up

 

externally is environmental input. And that includes Wi-Fi technology. It has a huge, huge effect on the virus. And then ensuring we don’t have mold. There’s like 50% of homes in the States, 51, 50% have had water damage. I would say in my communities, 70% of our students maybe come with that history. And so when you have a combination of Wi-Fi technology in a home with mold, that really sort of solidifies EBV and that can be a triggering effect. That happened to me. That’s what tips me over on top of my stressors in my personal life. So this is something that goes unrecognized.

 

Dr Kasia (29:38.782)

But if you have that, the EBV will always perpetuate. The simplest thing, the lowest hanging fruit is turning down the volume on wifi. It’s the wifi hygiene, the phone hygiene, the router hygiene, smart meter hygiene. In the last six months, 95% of people that come to me to talk about EBV, cause I screen them, use their phone as an alarm clock and have the phone constantly on them. That’s not acceptable. It’s very risky. And then the mold. Oftentimes people are very resistant, and I understand, but as we work together and things are not moving forward, I really do screen a lot and ask a lot of questions, and we find out there’s mold and it wasn’t found. So the priority is mold. Wi-Fi is easy.

 

But then the priority is mold. If you don’t remove that mold or remove yourself from it, EBV will constantly be in your face. We can’t really get rid of it. It’s like it’s party time. These are the complexities. And within that context, I would say we call it the bundle, the Jumpstart bundle. The Jumpstart bundle provides such high antioxidant value.

 

Dr Kasia (31:02.986)

It almost perfectly matches the needs, the kind of protocol that you will be put on if you had mold exposure. So it really supports, it builds you up. Some of the ingredients in that bundle are nutrients that we’re lacking that are essential for thyroid function and detoxification. And we’re not getting enough of that. So it really is building you up and turning down the virus.

 

Dr Kasia (31:30.313)

So then you have more brain function and less fatigue. So now you can cope with dietary, environmental changes, turning down toxic load, learning about the diet and lifestyle and sleep changes and all that. Because we can’t ask very, very sick people with EBV to do cognitive work or to do much. But they can open the mouth and follow the supplements. And as it turns down, they can start working on the healing. So it is kind of complicated.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (32:04.206)

It is complicated, and it sounds like though you’re using the products as a starting point to get them stabilized a bit and then it’s not that you just take these eight supplements for the rest of your life and everything goes away, right? You have to do the other work, but it kind of takes the edge off.  

 

Dr Kasia (32:25.127)

So here’s the good news. I’m going to map it for you in one minute. This is what I explain to each person that comes into our program. And this is great for practitioners to know the goal. So if a person starts on the bundle and follows the process. My program has all the components to heal different aspects of you and dietary changes and environmental changes and all that cleaning up.

 

At the end of this process, the person learns what their triggers are, what their first symptoms are, what is EBV and what is not EBV. Because sometimes they have ferritin like 5.

 

Where is your energy or the red blood cells or hemoglobin is low? You have anemia. It’s not all EBV driven. You know, EBV is just the result of that anemia or the result of pernicious anemia. We see that. See, look for pernicious anemia. Once you go through the process and you start healing, will you build yourself up?

 

Dr Kasia (33:36.248)

Once you get to the other side, you will start using less and less of the bundle. And eventually, pardon my language, shit hits the fan in life. Things happen, but people need to understand. These are some of the triggering events that might happen. And I joke if you’re in laws are moving in for 30 days, get back on the bundles. So you don’t reactivate. If you’re traveling.

 

Dr Kasia (34:05.596)

You’re on the bundle, taking it in the suitcase. But if you miss that, because you know what triggers, if you miss those triggering events, you start feeling the first symptoms, you already know your symptoms. So, you know it’s coming back. If you’ve been following this process, all you need is 48 hours back on the bundle, and you turn it off.

 

And I was able to turn it off myself and my students do. But the thing is, like you said, customization, when we work with a bundle, I work with each person and we drive the bundle to the level I need dosage-wise that they can tolerate. Some people can tolerate only 400 micrograms of selenium. I would rather have 800. That’s a very aggressive dose.

 

But if they have 400, that’s their max. And then we add another and we build it up. How much lysine can they take to my maximum recommendation? And so on. So in the first period when you start on the protocol, it may take two months to dose up and learn. And that’s the learning that people have to do. They have to study their body and say, how do I respond to selenium? What happens? They’re to journal. They have a list of possible side effects of over supplementation or know, or contraindications, medical, so they do one at a time, dose it up. Where am I stable? Okay, then I’m going to start on the other one. So it’s a journey, but once you have that bundle figured out, that’s the foundation that will carry you through for a number of months until you can live your life. And then you can start dosing down as you live your life.

 

Dr Kasia (35:58.074)

Like I said, then you only need 48 hours. You will know your maxes in your bundle. So you can jump on those immediately. So this gives people empowerment and freedom to live their life. But the process is not just the bundle. The bundle is the big stabilizer. The process is healing all of the pieces and learning about the virus. What tips it over? What reactivates it, you know? Are you burning wood and smelling or inhaling the dioxins? Because that will trigger it. So it’s like, I don’t have a quick fix. There is no quick fix..

 

Dr Ritamarie  (36:33.366)

No, no, no, there is no quick fix in healthcare. No, no, no, it’s having an approach. This is a framework. You understand it, you understand the triggers, you identify the supplements and the doses, and then we have to look at the environment, you look at the wifi, you look at the mold, and then diet. What do you do with people with diet? Do you have a specific dietary approach or is that customized to each person?

 

Dr Kasia (37:02.214)

Some people that come to me have developed orthorexia. And so we talk about it. My goal is always to expand, because these are people that are overachievers, type A, and they will try any therapeutic diets, autoimmune paleo. They are put on all these diets or put themselves on the diet, so sometimes the more you restrict, the more reactions you have to foods. People don’t understand that a therapeutic diet is two, three months, and then you have to address why you have to be on that therapeutic diet. So we do a lot of healing around that. 

 

Basically, for EBV, you need fiber, you need antioxidants, and you need to eat because you probably have taxed or tanked adrenals. So you need to really balance your blood sugar. In that community, you can’t do intermittent fasting.

 

You can’t do any form of fasting. You need to build yourself up. You need three meals, two snacks, very stable, balanced with glucose. The brain needs to be fed until you stabilize. So there’s a lot of regeneration and building up and simple recipes that are powerful, well balanced and delicious. Lots of herbs in it, lots of culinary spices, mostly, whole foods plant based.

 

Dr Kasia (38:26.758)

If people are stuck with meat, you know, I tried to be cognizant and not be dogmatic, but preferably all plant foods. 100%. Some people do well on raw. Some people don’t do well on raw. I start where they are, start with their history, their culinary history, their family background and ethnic background. And we work towards creating something really beautiful and healing.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (38:55.704)

Sounds amazing. So I would love it if you would just name off the supplements that you use in this bundle with the caveat that this is just a starting point, this is a stabilization, this is not the end point, do this for the rest of your life and you’re good. It takes everything else we do as root cause functional practitioners, you have to look at the whole person and the whole life. So tell us what those are.

 

Dr Kasia (39:24.412)

People who recover tell me sometimes this has been my biggest teacher in my life, because now I live an amazing life, but I wasn’t, and I wasn’t seeing where I was going. Vitamin D, D3K2, easy. Lysine, NAC.

 

Dr Kasia (39:50.726)

Vitamin C with bioflavonoids, no calcium, no buffer, just flavonoids. They potentiate that activity. That’s very simple. Zinc with a little bit of copper, because we have to use it daily. Licorice, that’s the only botanical. And that’s not deglycyrrhizinated. DGL does not work. No antiviral activity. The real licorice.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (40:17.954)

Are you careful about that with people with hypertension? 

 

Dr Kasia (40:21.468)

Yeah, if there is hypertension, it’s great to get rid of hypertension. And so, you know, do that. And sometimes you might try just licorice tea in the morning and see if that is enough. Because actually, even licorice tea has some modulation on the virus. What else didn’t I mention? Lysine, selenium.

 

Dr Kasia (41:06.066)

So they seem too simple. They seem too simple. However, lysine, selenium, and NAC are dosed up. Like 800 micrograms is the maximum medically safe dose. And that’s why I want to go first if it’s tolerated, sometimes only 600.

 

Dr Kasia (41:33.062)

And so you can overdo it if you have any other supplements ,because they add selenium here and there and everywhere. So yeah, be careful.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (41:37.196)

So when you say overdose, what would be some of the symptoms people might see if they overdose? 

 

Dr Kasia (41:43.602)

With selenium, hair loss. That would be the first one.

 

Dr Kasia (41:52.922)

Just gut issues like sliding. I remember one of my students said on our coaching call, everybody’s celebrating. Everybody’s getting better. I’m getting worse. I said, wow, what’s happening? So  I asked her, you know what she was doing? She wrote with a marker on the bottle, the dosage wrong. She was mega dosing with more than 800. She could have ended up in the ER, because this is very dangerous.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (42:26.21)

Wow. Well, we have reached the end of our time together, and I know we could talk for hours more, but I really, really appreciate you being here. This has been a lot of really good information. And I highly recommend that everybody get your book, because all of this is mapped out in the book, and it’s a big Bible, so that you can learn a lot about it and take the quiz, take the quiz yourself. And then you might want to recommend the quiz to some of your clients and patients and people you’re working with. So do you have any parting words for our people listening in today?

 

Dr Kasia (43:01.126)

Yeah, if you’re a practitioner, please, if you can do my training, go on Monday and treat it properly and change lives. We need more people doing it. I can’t do it on my own. It’s totally doable. It’s treatable. It’s reversible. It’s amazing. You just need some tools, and you can live your life. You’re not stuck with the virus, but you just have to learn about yourself and get on the healing journey.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (43:27.222)

Right. And I imagine that a lot of practitioners listening in are also maybe feeling like maybe I’m suffering from this as well. And so start with yourself and test yourself. We’ll put the links in the description and show notes. We’ll put the link to your training. So make sure you get those to us. And what’s the best way? I think we have a link to your website, but what’s your website for people to stay connected?

 

Dr Kasia (43:52.313)

EBVhelp.com. But also if you want to share my email for practitioners, I have a courtesy free call that they can sign up for me and talk to me and ask me questions just for practitioners. Everything is on the website though, all the links and everything.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (44:07.17)

Great, great. We’ll make sure we get that ebvhelp.com. Thank you.

 

Dr Kasia (44:10.738)

Yeah. And also if they want details on interpretation of labs, it’s on the website too, navigation at the bottom. There’s a page for labs. They can do training free, video free and different options of reading, all the interpretation for their patients. So it’s available there. Thank you for having me. I love you.

 

Dr Ritamarie  (44:30.304)

Thank you. Thank you for providing all this. 

 

We’re the future of health care. And this is just another set of tools in our toolbox. But we are the ones that are putting the care back into health care. But truly, we don’t have a health care system right now. We have a medical management system. So we want to get into health care and replace the outdated focus on symptom management into true underlying root causes and balancing and increasing resilience in our people, right? 

 

So I’ve dedicated my life to empowering people as has Dr. Kasia today. And we really need to be looking at how we all get trained? So listen to this, check out Dr. Kasia’s resources. And if you’re ready to take your practice to the next level, check out our site at inemethod.com because we have lots of great resources for health practitioners. Check the show notes in the description for more information. And until next time, shine on.